"They perform pain": "Iron Claw" filmmaker on the contradictory emotional life of wrestlers

Inspired by a true story, “The Iron Claw” recounts the “curse” of the Von Erich brothers — Kevin (Zac Efron), Kerry (Jeremy Allen White), David (Harris Dickinson) and Mike (Stanley Simons) — who wrestled their way to fame (and misfortune) in the 1980s. The bond between the brothers is close. Dad Fritz (Holt McCallany), a former wrestler whose signature move was the “iron claw,” lets his sons sort out their problems on their own. He is single-mindedly focused on what they need to do to earn the World Heavyweight Championship title.  

Writer/Director Sean Durkin (“Martha Marcy May Marlene”) immerses viewers in the world of wrestling, featuring several bouts that convey the real pain of body slams and theatrics of the sport. But “The Iron Claw” is really about the toxic masculinity of Fritz, who lets his sons suffer more outside of the ring. The family experiences a series of tragedies that test their toughness, strength and success. 

Nevertheless, the love, especially between the brothers, is heartfelt, and despite some difficult moments, the Von Erichs endure making this an engrossing sports drama that is also a Greek tragedy.

Durkin spoke with Salon about wrestling, the Von Erichs, and making “The Iron Claw.”

As with your previous features, “Martha Marcy May Marlene” and “The Nest,” you immerse viewers into a world that is very closed. What is your fascination with these cloistered worlds that are understandable from within, but less clear to outsiders? The strength of your films is that you provide insights as to how people behave. 

I’m really interested in families and how, oftentimes in families, we can grow up thinking that the way our family operates is the way people operate. Getting out in the world, the world reflects back that not everybody is like that. Why we believe what we believe, and where those beliefs come from, endlessly fascinates me.

What did you know about the Von Erichs and wrestling prior to making this film? 

I knew a lot about wrestling from my own childhood obsession. I was really into it, and tried to consume everything I could when I was a kid. I knew about wrestling history, and all the different federations, and all the wrestlers of the '80s and '90s. So, when I came to it as a filmmaker, I reflected on that base passion that I had and that emotional connection I had to it. It was a place where I could really express myself. I wanted to explore that.

Can you talk about your passion for wrestling?

I watched WWF, WCW, and I would find tapes of old matches. That’s where I came across the Von Erichs. I would get “Pro Wrestling Illustrated” magazine. I would have toys and I would play and be writing with wrestling figures — having feuds and championships. It was creative exploration. I was a quiet kid, but I would go to wrestling matches and scream and yell and be upset when my favorite wrestler didn’t win.

Who was your favorite wrestler?

Bret Hart was probably my all-time favorite.

Did you get to talk with Kevin Von Erich about his family? What did they reveal that provided insights for the film?

I didn’t talk to Kevin when I was writing the script or developing the film. Once I knew what film I would make, I reached out to him. We were very much on same page. The first thing he said to me is that he wanted to make sure I was making something that shows how much he and his brothers loved each other. I was certainly doing that. We hit it off, and he has provided such support over the last year and a half.  

Can you talk about staging the sport scenes? How did you lean into — or steer clear of — the sports film tropes? You film the bouts in ways that really get the audience into the action, especially one of Kevin’s big fights. 

I wanted to give that satisfying sports journey because it is so familiar, but in the end, it is more about letting go of the desire to achieve as opposed to trying to achieve. That’s the truer self for Kevin. It’s using wrestling as sport as a throughline, but the true story is what is happening emotionally underneath. 

Can you talk about staging the wrestling sequences?

We built the [Dallas arena] The Sportatorium. We wanted to recreate that specificity of the time. We had 300 extras, and we were shooting full wrestling matches to create as much of the real feeling as we could. The guys trained really hard and learned how to wrestle. We were wrestling full matches in front of live crowds, which was giving the actors the real energy of communicating with the audience and getting that boost from them and the adrenaline of it all. It was fun and exciting. Those shooting days were incredible.

The family dynamic was very interesting and unusual. What observations do you have about the Von Erichs in general and Fritz in particular? They are tight-knit but also brimming with toxic masculinity.

It’s very complicated. I was drawn to this idea that wrestlers show the extremes in the ring. They perform pain. But behind the scenes, they can’t really show their feelings. They are supposed to be tough men who don’t talk about if they hurt, or have pain or are sad. That was the thing to explore — how to get inside the emotional journey of guys who are not able to talk about feelings and the toxic and damaging toll that took on their family. That silence is the real curse that destroys them, and the film looks at how Kevin breaks that by being able to change.

The Iron Claw (A24)The film shows the mental and physical toll the sport and the family took on the lives of the brothers. What observations do you have about the “curse” they felt they lived under? Was that all real or just their father? There was a tremendous sense of dread.

I wanted that feeling of something coming. One thing that drew me to this was the sort of mythical nature of the family. It is an epic Greek tragedy. When you lay out everything that happened, it is unthinkable. There is this notion of a curse destroying family. The dread you are feeling [plays into] this idea that the curse is coming for them. But also, I wanted to look at the way the masculine tropes are the real curse. My belief is that there is no such thing as a curse; it’s not real. But when you are in a family where bad things have happened, and one bad thing happens to you, it is very easy to think your fate is sealed because of the history of your own family. That is a curse, and it can be self-fulfilling. And that is very real, and very psychological.

What can you say about filming the bodies in “The Iron Claw?” You focus on their physicality and strength. 

We wanted to celebrate wrestling in form, and bodies, and the way they move together in a ring and the work and dedication it takes to perform in that way and be physical. It is respect for the rigor of their life. The way they use bodies is body before mind, and before emotion. They put their bodies first — putting their feelings way down, and their thoughts second. Their form of communicating is very physical, so naturally the focus is on the physical.

How did you want viewers to feel about these individuals? It is a very loving portrait.

I never want to judge a character. I wanted it to be loving. They are a very loving, close family. Even Fritz, whose decisions we may judge through a modern-day lens. If you think about the violent world he came from, he thinks he is giving his son the best tools to survive. His decisions are made with love. I wanted to focus on that side of things.

Fritz doesn’t have self-awareness, and he pits his sons against one another.

He’s thinking about the family business. If we are on top right now, how do we continue to be on top? You need to be on top to survive because the world is a cruel place, and it will eat you alive. His ideals are the tougher you are, the better you are, and the more successful you will be. He does not have the foresight or the ability to take a step back and look at the emotional side.

They way Fritz treats his son Mike, who wants to play music, not wrestle, was telling.

The music thread was important to me, and I wanted to include that detail that Fritz was classical musician who rejected that and chose sports. Instead of talking to Mike and sharing a passion with his son, which could influence his life differently, Fritz’s shortsightedness is the real tragedy. But Fritz believes he is doing everything for the right reasons.

I see “The Iron Claw,” oddly, as a love story? Love of brothers/family/wrestling. But it isn’t feel good. What are your thoughts about tone? 

It is a love story, about Pam (Lily James) and Kevin’s love, and her coming in with a perspective that allows him to see things differently. It’s about his love for his family and using that to rebuild. It’s also about the love of wrestling, coming from me and my childhood love of it. The tone was really difficult to strike between the tragedy the wrestling spectacle and the emotional side beneath it. It’s challenging, but that’s why wanted to do it. I’d not seen that combination of things before. 

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What can you say about working with Zac, Jeremy and Harris?

I love those guys. They were so committed, and it was a great energy. Everyone had each other’s backs. There was a genuine chemistry you don’t have with those brothers. The physical transformation was their own to make. The wrestling, we trained really hard. Zac and I worked through the emotion beat-by-beat of the film, often to remind him, “This is not time to release emotion. Hold it in. Keep it simple. You might be feeling this but hold it in, or you are not aware of it.” We tried to be truthful to the character at a given point and time, scene by scene. There are moments where you think this is a moment where he would break down, but he doesn’t. That was the ongoing conversation. Jeremy and Harris were different, but there were similar things. I try to keep things simple and present and trust the guys with what they are doing and tweak it. We dealt with the moment we were in and being present with that.

“The Iron Claw” opens Dec. 22 in theaters nationwide.